This is the right conclusion, and I love sharing that video for that reason.
As of 2025 everyone globally has everything they need to make the world a great place for everyone. Instead, people continue to take the lowest energy route for their personal actions, which means they do not even think about the externalities of that purchase from Amazon, the Latte from Starbucks, continuing living in (insert your broken system here), working for some billionaire etc...They just shrug and think "its out of my control, besides I don't have any impact and why should I suffer unnecessarily"
There are millions of examples of individual people who had no education, being actively oppressed and violently attacked changing their situation by either moving or overthrowing their oppressors. Harriet Tubman comes to mind.
It's never been easier to do that, but people would rather not.
The entire "illegal immigrant" concept proves it, people literally spending their entire life savings ($5000) to pay coyotes to smuggle them in horrific conditions so they can be slaves picking strawberries. I know a Houston restaurant owner who did that trek twice from Guatemala, getting deported the first time and he just saved up and did it again. While speaking no english. Tell me again about how it's not possible to do something. Meanwhile the citizens can't be bothered to learn about their own history or you know, do anything.
I've tried to start multiple non-heirarchical anarchist cooperative organizations and the number one challenge is finding people who will put the group ahead of the individual. It just doesn't happen. There are no organizations where that's true. No church, no government, no state, no charity, nothing, nowhere actually meets the test of holistic globally aligned "good."
I read the Medicins Sans Frotiers book long ago, even they were terrible and continue to fight internally [1]. Unions now make most of their money from capital investments [2], which is directly in opposition to their anticapitalist philosophical roots. All of this is because the members don't care and don't have any desire to have less, they all want more forever.
At this point in history, everyone has access to the information they need to make globally holistic decisions. It's not possible to claim ignorance, ignorance is strictly a choice and ultimately a existential personal limitation.
There are no organizations that exist for the benefit of society and they cannot exist because humans fundamentally lack the cognitive ability to think beyond Dunbar's number but their actions have global consequences.
Self elimination is the only possible arc for humanity.
The job of a union in the non-sectoral-bargaining structure of the US is to shove more money into the pockets of their members, period, end of story, and that is exactly what their members pay them to do
> Self elimination is the only possible arc for humanity.
Hey man, at least add a spoiler alert.
We eradicated smallpox and recovered the ozone layer through global coordination, not even a century after murdering each other by the tens of millions in two world wars. We're capable of both.
> recovered the ozone layer through global coordination
The ozone layer won't be "recovered" for about a century, assuming everyone plays nicely[1]. It is still diminished from CFCs, and we're still being bombarded with more UV than previously.
> I've tried to start multiple non-heirarchical anarchist cooperative organizations and the number one challenge is finding people who will put the group ahead of the individual. It just doesn't happen.
I could have saved you the trouble if you'd just asked me!
Over 20,000 communes have been started in the US. None have survived. What baffles me is why people keep believing they can work.
Free markets work because it harnesses the inherent selfishness of everybody, rather than trying to override selfishness.
> it harnesses the inherent selfishness of everybody
the biggest lie we're constantly being told: https://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/bios/Ostrom.html. this really annoys me, we're not inherently selfish. at least not most people. free markets don't work in any rate. how do you even come to this conclusion?
Spot on, it's so sad to see this kind of thinking so ingrained in people, when literally 3 seconds of critical thinking would lead to the opposite conclusion. Are kids just as selfish as adults, at every age? Does their selfishness change depending on what they're taught and how selfish their role models are? Is selfishness among adults at the exact same level across decades, eras, cultures, nations?
If the answer to any of these questions is "no" (and anyone capable of using HN should realistically be answering them as such), then it's abundantly clear you can't just hold up your hands and say "oh well, everybody is inherently selfish, 'ts just the way it is". Even the idea of everyone being somewhat selfish isn't really true when you consider the countless cases of people literally sacrificing their own lives through history - and not for some kind of post-mortem glory. One can argue semantics over that still being "selfish" as it's done to further a goal of themselves but that's just wasting everyone's time.
> when literally 3 seconds of critical thinking would lead to the opposite conclusion
Understanding why free markets work takes a lot longer than 3 seconds, as it is counter-intuitive.
> the countless cases of people literally sacrificing their own lives through history
Decades ago, the Scientific American ran an article about this, where a study showed that people self-sacrificing can mathematically be shown to ensure the survival of their genes. For an obvious case, parents sacrificing themselves for their children's sake. This makes it selfish. People are less willing to sacrifice themselves the genetically further away the people benefiting from such sacrifice.
Ostrom: "the ones that worked did have a kind of property rights system"
LOL. And the fact that she gets a Nobel Prize for this shows how unworkable it is in general.
> we're not inherently selfish
You're selfish, so am I, so is everyone you know.
> free markets don't work in any rate. how do you even come to this conclusion?
The success of free markets in the US, Germany, Japan, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Vietnam, China, Singapore, etc.
Worker cooperatives: A worker cooperative is not a commune. In any case, there are what, a hundred examples listed? What that shows is they are so rare that a global list can be compiled on Wikipedia. Set that against the scores of millions of businesses.
> You're selfish, so am I, so is everyone you know.
you can ignore the evidence all you want. Doesn't make it correct. Google it for yourself then.
> The success of free markets in the US, Germany, Japan, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Vietnam, China, Singapore, etc.
how have they succeeded? enshittification and wealth accumulation is success? what's the metric here? decreased health? decreased lifespan? increased addiction? increased unhappiness?
> Worker cooperatives: A worker cooperative is not a commune.
Let me quote the discussion, which you obviously didn't even understand:
>> I've tried to start multiple non-heirarchical anarchist cooperative organizations and the number one challenge is finding people who will put the group ahead of the individual. It just doesn't happen.
> I could have saved you the trouble if you'd just asked me!
> Over 20,000 communes have been started in the US. None have survived. What baffles me is why people keep believing they can work.
they talked about cooperatives, you answered with communes. I gave proof that cooperatives work.
That's not true. I just checked on it, and they used to be subsidized, these days not so much.
A lot of them are hybrid models with some capitalism, mixed with the socialism. So I guess it sort of confirms your opinion that these things don't work when pure?
But they do seem to have found a successful hybrid model.
The problem is that capitalism mathematically ensures inequality which subverts the concept of survival because it creates extreme imbalances in agency.
What results is that capitalism must always use as reference a forever unchanged “state of nature” mythology which never existed.
Capitalists view themselves as a different species than modern anatomical humans, more enlightened etc… but I have seen firsthand that millionaires billionaires and even “middle class” people have less consciousness than those who have very little capital.
Capital enables alienation by letting the capitalist offload “life” to people who do it for them, leaving them nothing but Vice. It always corrupts
>It's never been easier to do that, but people would rather not.
Never been harder with ubiquitous surveillance.
>As of 2025 everyone globally has everything they need to make the world a great place for everyone.
Disagree. Even if theres enough food being produced, its not produced evenly, and the extra labor and resources to distribute it evenly would screw a lot of this up. Then theres the idea that a bureaucracy large enough to distribute it worldwide would be efficient.
>I've tried to start multiple non-heirarchical anarchist cooperative organizations and the number one challenge is finding people who will put the group ahead of the individual.
The group is made of individuals. Ultimately eventually they will need some reward for their participation. Whenever I have involved myself in these groups theres ultimately some unsavoury character who has positioned himself as leader and siphon off the glory for themselves. Or in one case, it was just an avenue for the "leader" to gain access to vulnerable women. These groups dont work because they get hijacked, not because the people doing the work dont want to work.
>Unions now make most of their money from capital investments [2], which is directly in opposition to their anticapitalist philosophical roots.
Unions are about protecting workers. They dont have to be socialist paragons as long as they meet that directive.
>At this point in history, everyone has access to the information they need to make globally holistic decisions.
Lmao, where to start with that doozy. Local knowledge still trumps the disinfo hose.
>lack the cognitive ability to think beyond Dunbar's number
People just dont trust beyond that number, and with good reason.
>Self elimination is the only possible arc for humanity.
Lmao, there's no reason why we cant keep going like this. An engine built on brutal exploitation. Predicting humanities doom seems greatly premature.
This is the right conclusion, and I love sharing that video for that reason.
As of 2025 everyone globally has everything they need to make the world a great place for everyone. Instead, people continue to take the lowest energy route for their personal actions, which means they do not even think about the externalities of that purchase from Amazon, the Latte from Starbucks, continuing living in (insert your broken system here), working for some billionaire etc...They just shrug and think "its out of my control, besides I don't have any impact and why should I suffer unnecessarily"
There are millions of examples of individual people who had no education, being actively oppressed and violently attacked changing their situation by either moving or overthrowing their oppressors. Harriet Tubman comes to mind.
It's never been easier to do that, but people would rather not.
The entire "illegal immigrant" concept proves it, people literally spending their entire life savings ($5000) to pay coyotes to smuggle them in horrific conditions so they can be slaves picking strawberries. I know a Houston restaurant owner who did that trek twice from Guatemala, getting deported the first time and he just saved up and did it again. While speaking no english. Tell me again about how it's not possible to do something. Meanwhile the citizens can't be bothered to learn about their own history or you know, do anything.
I've tried to start multiple non-heirarchical anarchist cooperative organizations and the number one challenge is finding people who will put the group ahead of the individual. It just doesn't happen. There are no organizations where that's true. No church, no government, no state, no charity, nothing, nowhere actually meets the test of holistic globally aligned "good."
I read the Medicins Sans Frotiers book long ago, even they were terrible and continue to fight internally [1]. Unions now make most of their money from capital investments [2], which is directly in opposition to their anticapitalist philosophical roots. All of this is because the members don't care and don't have any desire to have less, they all want more forever.
At this point in history, everyone has access to the information they need to make globally holistic decisions. It's not possible to claim ignorance, ignorance is strictly a choice and ultimately a existential personal limitation.
There are no organizations that exist for the benefit of society and they cannot exist because humans fundamentally lack the cognitive ability to think beyond Dunbar's number but their actions have global consequences.
Self elimination is the only possible arc for humanity.
[1] https://healthpolicy-watch.news/inward-technocratic-msf-lead...
[2] https://jacobin.com/2023/02/finance-unionism-union-density-d...